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Helga Zepp-LaRouche Joins The LaRouche Show, March 19, 2011

The Rim of Fire, the Mass Strike,
and the Crisis of Civilization

March 2011

EIRNS/Sergei Strid

Helga Zepp-LaRouche addresses the Berlin congress of the Civil Rights Movement Solidarity (BüSo) on January 29, 2011.

HARLEY SCHLANGER: Good afternoon and welcome to The LaRouche Show. It is Saturday, March 19th, 2011. I'm Harley Schlanger and I will be your host today.

We're at an extremely compelling moment in history, characterized by Lyndon LaRouche at a private diplomatic seminar this week, as a confluence or intersection of three profound crises: First, there is what he called "the galactic crisis," in which a dramatic increase in solar activity can be correlated to a series of natural events in a region of the world surrounding the Pacific Ocean, known as the "Rim of Fire." This was the subject of this week's LaRouche PAC-TV Weekly Report, featuring Mr. LaRouche and Sky Shields, and also a very fascinating special report on LaRouche PAC TV titled the "Rim of Fire." There's growing evidence that there is a correlation between this increased solar activity, or what Mr. LaRouche calls "the misbehavior of the Sun," and the devastating earthquake which took place last week in Japan, as well as the recent earthquakes in New Zealand and Chile, and the possibility of an earthquake on the West Coast of North America.

Now, the second crisis is a manmade crisis: The global financial tsunami, the origin of which is in the trans-Atlantic theater, which is dominated by the insane monetarists of the British Empire and the City of London. In a statement issued this week by my guest, today, Helga Zepp-LaRouche, she pointed out that this tsunami is already destroying the nations of the trans-Atlantic region, and is the sort of crisis which will prevent us, as a civilization from dealing with the effects of the galactic crisis, unless it is overcome by the economic policies developed by Mr. LaRouche.

The third crisis, and this is one in which Helga Zepp-LaRouche is an expert, is the moral-intellectual crisis, which is the reason why governments, and leading institutions, and the populations of the world, have thus far failed to address the other two crises. We now have the political-social dynamic emerging, in the form of a global mass-strike process, which provides us with the opportunity to reverse the corruption of governments and people and begin to implement solutions.

So, joining me today to discuss this dramatic conjuncture, is Helga Zepp-LaRouche, and Helga, welcome to the program.

HELGA ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah, hello, how are you?

SCHLANGER: I'm doing fine. I'm very curious as to your sense of things from your vantage point, in Europe. Give us your sense of this conjuncture of crises at the moment.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think the picture looks different depending from which country or which part of the world you're looking at. I think that first of all, very laudable is the absolute determination by the Japanese population to conquer this terrible coincidence of the earthquake, the tsunami, and then as a result of that, the nuclear crisis, but that is sort of, in a complete, stark contrast to what's going on, let's say, in Europe, in Germany in particular, where this event in Japan has been used by the media, in particular, but also the various Green politicians in various parties to cause a frenzy, which has, in less than a week, caused a complete political earthquake in Germany, which can only be described as an outbreak of mass insanity.

Now, that has led to the fact that the present government of Mrs. Merkel has decided to declare a moratorium for three months on seven of the seventeen nuclear plants in Germany, and there is now a report that the Environment Ministry has produced a secret document, which basically shows the intention to increase the safety standards in such a way that in all likelihood this means the complete exit from nuclear energy for Germany altogether. Now, if that were to happen, you can kiss Germany goodbye.

I think this is an attack of insanity as I have not seen it, and if that remains, then I do not see how Germany -- and if Germany goes this way, then you have all of Europe, because of the strength of the German economy -- how Europe could play any positive role in the solution of this crisis. Because, as you said, we have these two other things: We have mounting evidence that the pattern of earthquakes which we have seen already, in New Zealand, which we saw in Japan, which is in all likelihood, about to hit California -- at least that is the view of serious Russian scientists in particular, who are warning that this Rim of Fire pattern will continue. It may cause volcano [eruptions] and earthquakes in other regions, like Kamchatka [Russia], or the West Coast of the United States. If that would happen -- well, if you don't conquer this phenomenon, which right now, for example, the reaction of the international mass media, especially in the Anglo-American dominated world, was to completely only focus on the nuclear crisis in Japan, completely blacking out, for at least five or six days, the fact that an area in Japan has been destroyed by this combination of an earthquake and the tsunami, of a major German state; and now you can see the complete destruction, where, after all, Japan is a highly industrialized country and not like Indonesia, or Haiti, or some other country which had similar disasters before, but this is Japan, this is what used to be the second largest economic power on the planet. That if you can not remedy that, and if you would have a repetition of similar earthquakes around the world, especially in the Pacific Rim, I mean, the Earth is facing an existential crisis, and the media have not focussed on that. They have focussed on, not the earthquake, not the tsunami, but on a nuclear crisis, which admittedly shows some weaknesses in the nuclear program, but after all, it was not Chernobyl, at no point it was in danger to be another Chernobyl, and it really shows that the media, and the politicians which are going in this green direction, are completely out of pace with what is going on!

Now, you have on top of that, or, let's say, equally dangerous to the existence of civilization, the meltdown of the financial system, the inflation is being felt everywhere, the Federal Reserve is rumored to go for another major bailout, the euro crisis is picking up speed, all the rating agencies have downgraded Portugal, Spain, Ireland; Italy is in terrible condition. And I think that the blindness with which the politicians of the G8 countries are continuing their ways, I think we need a complete reversal of course. Because if we don't do that, I think the world is really in the biggest peril in its history.

SCHLANGER: I think this description you gave, Helga, of the conjuncture of what LaRouche calls the galactic crisis and financial crisis, points toward this moral-intellectual crisis. And I'd like to ask you, specifically on Germany, we had seen in the last weeks, the beginning of a shift, which to some extent, to a significant extent, has been centered around the work of your political party, the BüSo, to the long years, not just recently, but the years of going after the insanity of the Green ideology, and we've been seeing a response of the German people to that, with the E-10 question the ethanol question, with some questions raised by Bildzeitung and others on this insanity of the ecology tax, has that been reversed by the way the media have been playing this? And Merkel did a total about-face, on this moratorium on nuclear plants.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think it remains to be seen, until this present wave of hysteria has settled a little bit. But I think the underlying sentiment, that we can not destroy food, to put in our tanks, that was a very good impulse; question marks about the unsustainability of renewable energies, in terms of price and the effect on the economy, that is not going to go away. The protest against the ecology tax, which was never the so-called "ecology," but always only to fill holes in the budget, all of that remains. But, I think it is important to understand that what has happened in the last week, was really a hype. You had a TV and news coverage, which was absolutely identical, in principle, like what happened in the United States after September 11th, and I remember, since I was there, and since this was such an extraordinary event, I did watch TV for a couple of days, until I came to the conclusion that for my own mental health, I had to stop doing that. But you had this hour-by-hour breaking developments and repetition, and on and on, in the immediate period after September 11th and it was exactly like that in Germany: You had on all channels, programs, special features -- and always talking about "meltdown," "Chernobyl," "meltdown." And at no point was there a correct characterization of the kind of problem, which indeed did exist in these reactors in Fukushima. But the population really became completely hyped on this question.

Then, after a couple of days, Mrs. Merkel, who had just previously, about a year ago, succeeded in delaying the so-called exit from nuclear energy, for a certain number of years, made a complete turn-about, and all of a sudden declared that she will declare a moratorium for at least three or four months, in which, basically all the so-called old nuclear plants will be taken offline, and all the nuclear plants will be reviewed in a safety check. Then in the meantime, the TV program, "Contrasts," a 1st Channel program, revealed a so-called secret document where basically, it was revealed that the changes which are proposed by the Environment Ministry are so harsh, that there is no way that nuclear can remain profitable if they would be implemented. For example, you apply the same standards for the plants in Germany, as it would be in a high-risk earthquake area, which it obviously is not, in the same way as a major flood area, which obviously is very unlikely; but also terrorist attacks, airplane crashes, bunkers for all the reserve generators, and so forth and so on.

So, now, I think there is something else much behind it, because, I just found out that last November, already, all parties, except the so-called Left Party [Die Linke], that is, the CDU/CSU, FDP, SPD, and Greens, basically commissioned a so-called "Enquête-Kommission" [Commission of Inquiry], which is supposed to apply all the findings of the Club of Rome, and all their various successor organizations and branches, to define new definitions of what is growth, what is sustainable development, and so forth. And I just saw the suggested reading list for this commission, and it's one Club of Rome affiliate after the other. There's not one thinker which is not of this idea, basically going to the "sustainable development/post-industrial" era, and that was commissioned last November! So, since that was the decision of all the parties, except the Left Party, which is sort of on the fringe somewhere, there was a commitment to go in the direction of getting out nuclear energy anyway, by all of these parties. And I think this is -- in a certain sense, the only way you can understand it, is there is an evil plot, by what we call the British Empire, to smash Germany forever. Because if you implement all of these things I just mentioned, then you would have the belated Morgenthau Plan, but without agriculture, because the EU policies for agriculture, you know, using food for ethanol, and having all of these insane proposals, basically means you also ruin a good part of the German agriculture.

So, I think this is insane, this is completely crazy: It is not founded on any scientific findings, and it leaves a situation, where the party I'm heading, the BüSo is right now, the only party in Germany which is still fighting for nuclear energy, which is still fighting for economic and scientific growth, and it's really the survival of Germany as an industrial nation as we have known it, which is at stake.

SCHLANGER: You're listening to Helga Zepp-LaRouche, on the LaRouche Show. This is actually very interesting Helga. This gets at the point, that your husband was making about the intellectual-moral crisis. But also, the time period you're mentioning, now, November, that this report is coming out, this is in the midst of the explosion of the euro crisis. Why don't you give us a sense of where that stands now? You mentioned Portugal being downgraded, Greece downgraded; in Ireland there's a new government which is already in trouble, because of its adherence to the IMF/EU policy.

Are you expecting a further indication of the mass strike ferment in Europe, given both the craziness in this policy, but also the fact that it's unsustainable, the eurozone is unsustainable.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah, I think the situation where all these countries, which took the bailout funds, or the rescue package, they are now all faced with having to pay interest rates which are unsustainable. And the fact that the rating agencies have downgraded all these countries, naturally means, it's like the vultures flying over the expected victim, just waiting for it to die. So I think this thing is not of a long life expectancy, because something interesting happened: And that was that the head of the Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe, Mr. Andreas Vosskuhle, made a speech about a week ago in Brussels, where he said that he wanted to basically counterpose the impression, which obviously many people would have, that the Constitutional Court in Germany is against the European integration, and turning the EU into a federal state, that that was not their intention, but he just wanted to make sure that with the court rulings, the so-called Maastricht ruling and the Lisbon ruling, that it was clear, that if there would be such a transference of sovereignty to Brussels [EU headquarters], then that had to be expressed through a referendum, according to Article 146 of the Grundgesetz [Germany's Constitution], if there would be the political will of the German population, then such a changing into a constitution of a European federal state would be fine.

Now, I don't know why Mr. Vosskuhle said that, but that was immediately then picked up by the five professors who still have a pending constitutional complaint in Karlsruhe, to put out a press release to say that that statement by Mr. Vosskuhle means that the Constitutional Court has declared their suit against this rescue package, as legitimate.

And then I put out a statement saying, then this leaves only two options: Since the Constitutional Court is still going to rule -- they have accepted the case; they have now requested testimony from the ECB [European Central Bank], from the government, so there will be a hearing and a ruling, that that leaves only two options: Either the court declares the rescue package as illegal, against the Constitution, in which case the German government could not stay with it, and they would have to pull out, and that would be the end of the euro, right there. Or, the Constitutional Court says, "yes, it is in accordance with the Constitution, but since it is a transfer of sovereignty to the EU, it does require a referendum according to Article 146." And I'm pretty sure, that if you had, in all European countries, a referendum right now about the euro, about the rescue package, about the present policies of the EU Commission, there is no question that this would be lost. Because already before the Lisbon Treaty was even introduced, Sarkozy had discussed in a meeting with European Parliamentarians in Strasbourg, that a referendum had to be avoided by all means, because every time you ask the European population, they say, "no," as it occurred in 2005, in France and in Holland, and therefore the whole thing had to be pushed through more or less in a clandestine way, which they then did. So, I think the time of the euro is that its days are numbered, because it will end, either this way or that way. [For a translation of Mrs. Zepp-LaRouche's statement, see: Financial Tsunami Ahead — About-Face Before It's Too Late!]

A trade union demonstration in Ireland, prior to the February 25 elections that tripled the number of Sinn Féin members in the legislative body and replaced many other Fianna Fail members with Independents and Socialists committed to a repeal of the bailout and austerity deal.

SCHLANGER: And I assume if such a referendum were to take place, that the BüSo would have the possibility of emerging in the same way as the Sinn Fein in Ireland. I'd like to ask you about that: We do have campaigns [for state parliament, Landtag] in Rhineland-Pfalz and Baden-Württemberg. How are those campaigns going, in your view?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Oh, I think they're going fine. I think what we see right now, is a growing pattern, of people who do not believe the media, who know us since 10, 20, 30, even longer years, and who basically understand that this is an exceptional crisis of civilization. And I think the hope is that the healthy elements of the population, who do understand that Germany without science and technology, without a clear commitment to high energy-flux density forms of power, can not be an industrial nation. These people are responding to us, and hopefully it will be enough to save this country.

SCHLANGER: And Helga, in that light, if we look at what you're talking about, the growing recognition, this is precisely this idea of the mass strike, and I'd like to broaden this a little bit, but I have one more question on the German situation. Obviously, the so-called nuclear crisis in Japan, the media-obsessive focus on that, blotted out what appeared to be a reaction developing from the EU meeting last weekend, where Merkel finally agreed to go along with this idea of expanding the bailout fund, has that been completely taken off the pages? Is there no discussion of that, now?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think the Japan coverage has really buried this other issue, at least for the last week. I think it will come back. But you know, you have this new development, which is also -- it shows you how quickly these things are happening: Today the bombardment of Libya started, and Germany took itself out of it, which I think was a very wise decision, even if it caused a huge freakout. But Germany decided not to engage militarily in this war, remaining in a neutral position, together with Russia, China, India and Brazil. And there was quite some freakout in Brussels, that Germany took the liberty to refrain from military engagement.

But I think this was absolutely true, because, see the problem is the entire EU Lisbon Treaty has this idea, and obviously also NATO, have this idea of so-called "humanitarian interventions." But the problem is, under the pretext of a "humanitarian intervention," you engage in long wars in Africa, in long wars in Asia, and that's exactly that the British strategy always has been. Look at where we are in Iraq, today; look at Afghanistan. And the Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle made the point, that you don't know where this is supposed to end, and there is no clear perspective. Mrs. Clinton has talked about another large "Somalia," and I think this is very, very important.

But it also shows that civilization is really on the edge of collapse! Because if you have these kinds of things, taking place in such a speed -- you know, we are in an unfolding, accelerating breakdown crisis of civilization, and I think that that is what we have to face.

SCHLANGER: This is reminiscent in a way, if you look at the whole scope of this thing, Saudis intervening in Bahrain, the possibility of a Shi'a-Sunni conflict, Netanyahu again threatening Iran, it does have elements of a 1492 to 1648 explosion of religious warfare, as a cover for protecting the Empire.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Definitely. And I think that in terms of history, you can never say how long in the future you have possibilities to avoid disaster. But when you look back, there are points where windows of opportunity to change ways close down. And I think we are, really, within a few moments from such a possibility, because, if you now would have, on top of this ongoing hyperinflationary collapse, and hyperinflation is becoming really an issue. Inflation is visible, which is no surprise, because all of these bailout packages continue to fuel inflation in food prices, in raw materials prices, in energy prices; I mean, you could quickly get into a dynamic where you can not reverse it. I mean, we are on the verge of a situation, where governments are about to lose it. And hopefully they haven't lost it yet, but the only thing which we can say, is, we have to have a real popular discussion, about what will happen to civilization! What will happen to this planet? What will happen to human civilization? I mean, anybody who is not a complete moral moron, must see, this civilization is about to explode, to go under, to face the worst crisis in history! That's my view, that we are, right now, on the verge of the worst crisis in human civilization ever. And there must be people who say, "We have to change this, we have to go back to sanity, in terms of bringing the political and economic order into cohesion with the lawfulness of the universe, or else we will not make it."

SCHLANGER: And the positive side of this, is that we are seeing a reaction globally, from North Africa, through the Middle East, through Europe, into states such as Wisconsin, Texas, California, where there are large numbers of people mobilizing, that this mass-strike process. But it has within it a problem, which is that you have a legitimate reaction against the tyranny, and I believe you put out a statement on this last week. But on the other side, you have people who just don't know quite what to do.

I have one question from one of our regular contributors to the LaRouche Show, who's asking about Mervyn King, and what's going on with him, the head of the Bank of England, who appears to be carrying out a fairly serious campaigning for a Glass-Steagall style separation, and yet, the Bank of England, of course, is at the center of the City of London! Can you say anything about this?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I don't know exactly how this inner City of London dynamic works, but I think that Mervyn King's campaign for a de facto separation of the banks, not exactly Glass-Steagall, but going in this direction, has been noted by everybody on the continent who has any knowledge about these matters. And I think that there is a growing number of people who understand that without a Glass-Steagall standard, there is no way how you can get this crisis under control. The Italian Economic Minister Giulio Tremonti has come out repeatedly for it; you have a huge debate in Switzerland, of people who are saying there must be a separation of the banks, even the head of the Swiss Banking Association, Mr. Hildebrand, has come out, repeatedly, and said that with the two large Swiss banks, UBS and Crédit Suisse, each of them is so-called "too big to fail." If one of these banks would collapse, Switzerland would collapse! Because these banks have portfolios, which by a large extent outweigh the Swiss economic strength, in terms of the GDP. There was a huge freakout, that the head of the Swiss Banking Association would say this, but there is this debate, which is supported by a whole bunch of councils from the cantons. You have a debate in Austria, you have even some people in Germany, from the savings and loans banks, who are demanding a separation of the banks, so I think there is a huge ferment there, and I think we are heading for a point of crisis, where the question will be, will there be any signal coming from the United States? If there is, I think we would have a whole receptive ground in Europe, of forces in the banking community to go along. Because people get a little bit scared by now, because this crisis is getting a little bit too hot for people to stomach.

Following the revolution in Tunisia, thousands of refugees have flooded the small Italian island of Lampedusa, where there are only 4,500 inhabitants, creating a potential humanitarian disaster. Shown: a holding center on Lampedusa.

SCHLANGER: Well, I want to get to the situation in the United States, and your view of that in a moment, but I have just one more question on the situation in North Africa and Europe, with this virtual declaration of war against the Qaddafi regime, the threat of military action; this is going to most likely increase the refugee crisis, which, from what I understand was already having an impact, a very profound impact in Italy. What can you tell us about that?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think it is very serious, because for whatever, this is worse. Qaddafi had a deal with the European Union, to contain the masses of people trying to flee from black Africa, to Sicily, to Greece, to Spain, and he sort of kept them inside Africa. Now, this has broken down, with the horrible consequences that a lot of the rebels also were killing the African refugees in Libya, because some of them had taken services for Qaddafi, so the rebels then killed the black people, thinking they were all mercenaries for Qaddafi. So, there was an unbelievable humanitarian horror-show, which also shows that it's not so clear-cut who is who in this conflict.

But what happened is that the number of people trying to take boats to Sicily, or to Lampedusa, the Italian island, or other Greek islands, was increasing, and that is becoming a huge issue, especially in Italy, but also in Greece, where you have this totally insane born between Turkey and Greece, as if you could prevent these streams of refugees by walls and camps. There are horrible camps in Malta, where people are locked in, since two years, no hope; I saw an interview with some young men from this camp, and they said, if they would have known what life would be in these camps where they are sitting for two years, they would have never come, because they have absolutely no future!

So, the pressure in Italy, therefore, is such that the Foreign Minister and also the Interior Minister have come out, strongly, calling for a Marshall Plan for northern Africa, and that is exactly what needs to be done. Now, the BüSo has produced a new video on the absolutely necessary economic development, for not only North Africa, but large parts of Africa. It a beautiful video. I can only -- for those of you who speak German, it's really the most powerful idea, how you could transform the continent of Africa, in a very short period of time, you could fulfill the promise that Africa could become the breadbasket, not only for Africa, but for large parts of the world. You could transform the deserts into gardens, forests, and landscapes, and it's just so easy ! It would be so easy to develop Africa, and to stop this horror show. ["Nordafrika: die blaue Revolution," (North Africa: The Blue Revolution)]

The Transaqua Plan for Water Infrastructure Development


View full-size map

The development of the Lake Chad basin is only part of the huge Transaqua project. Lake Chad is in the northwest on this map, straddling the borders of four countries, Niger, Chad, Central African Republic, and Nigeria.

And what we are doing here, is we have full-fledged mobilization, not only to save Germany as a nation, but to give all of the European nations a mission. And the most obvious mission which would unite the independent republics of Europe, in one common European goal, would be the commitment to develop Africa. And it is my deepest belief, since a very long time, that our ability to do that, or not, will decide over our own ability to continue to exist: Because this is the bottom of the moral issue at stake in Europe right now. [English speakers can see "The Hope For Africa" on the LaRouche PAC website]

SCHLANGER: I think this is moral issue, when your husband talks about the intellectual-moral crisis, this is exactly what he's talking about. And we're seeing this, in terms of the unfolding in the mass-strike movement in the United States, where we've seen demonstrations in many, many state capitals, because the Republican governors took the last elections, where people had reacted against Obama, as endorsement of so-called "Republican policies," namely budget cutting, slashing health care, education, and so on. But what we're finding is that there's a legitimate reaction against this, in fact, an explosive reaction. And yet, it's the same question that you were talking about. There's a lack of understanding of what could be done, to fight this. and I wonder if you have some thoughts on this, as a way, how can we take this mass-strike process, which is global, and orient it toward, the positive proposal you just made for developing Africa, developing Asia, overcoming the historic tragedy of civilization, where a handful of wealthy people use imperial forms to literally destroy the bulk of the population? How do we do that?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think there is already a certain awareness in Europe, about what's going on in the United States, that in Wisconsin and other places, the Republicans are trying to destroy the trade unions and there has been a process of solidarity, from trade unions, from actually all over the world, and I think this is very good.

SCHLANGER: Helga, isn't there a similar thing coming from the EU against collective bargaining, now, in Europe?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah, that's what I was just about to say: The EU is exactly proposing the same thing. And I'm absolutely certain that this will not be taken, because the right of the trade unions for collective bargaining is just a very, very fundamental right. Here in Germany, a locomotive engineers' trade union, the GDL, has just started a strike action, where they are fighting to undo the fact that you have, on the one side, the state railway company Deutsche Bahn, but then 30% of the railway traffic has gone into private companies, which have already dropped the wages of the locomotive engineers, by 30%. So what this strike is all about, is to basically force again the same wage level for both the state and the private companies, and I think this is very good, because they are trying to undo what was already done with this insane privatization drive.

But I think the success or failure of all of these actions will depend on the question, will these forces, teachers, locomotive engineers, trade unions and others, will they understand that they have to go beyond their single issue of their trade union, of their local concern, and they have to take the world as a whole. They have to at least take the Glass-Steagall standard, and that way, really take a step beyond what they usually have done. If they don't do that, all these actions will get demoralized and will be smashed. But I'm optimistic that we can provide this orientation, because I think the new element in this situation, what we find here, is that an increasing number of people -- it's still not the masses, but individuals basically understand, the system is finished and either you replace it with a new system, or there is no way how the world will make it.

SCHLANGER: And that brings us to what I'd like to spend the rest of the program on, and for those who are just joining us, I'm talking with Helga Zepp-LaRouche from Germany, today, about the intersection of the galactic crisis, which we see in the Rim of Fire; the financial crisis which has been forecast by Lyndon LaRouche and Helga Zepp-LaRouche, and they've been absolutely right in talking about the breakdown of the euro, the move to hyperinflation, Bernanke's push for now "QE III," the next phase of the bailout and so on. And then, of course, the question of, how do you mobilize a population, to have the ideas that are required to take this existential crisis, and have a positive outcome. Of course, in most of history, the empires have always been able to come back.

What gives you -- you said you're optimistic, where does the optimism come from? How can you see a way out of this crisis, not just in the short term, but as a sustainable development?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think that we are witnessing right now, the collapse of this empire. I mean, look at what happened in '89. Nobody would have thought that the Soviet Union would disappear. Right now, we see on a much larger level, namely a global level, the collapse of the system of free-market economy, of globalization, and all the axioms which go along with it. I think we have reached such a low point, in every respect, if you look at what happened after three and a half years of bailout packages, the number of billionaires and millionaires has increased, and the number of people, ranging in the billions , who can't make, is also increasing! And I think this has reached a point of utmost stress, and I don't think that this will come to a point where things will go on as they were before. And that basically brings to the question, the very fundamental issue: What is the nature of man, what is the nature of the universe, in which we are living, what is the identity of man on this planet and in the universe, and I think we are -- even if we had one week -- a complete frenzy of the paradigm associated with the Club of Rome, the ecology movement, and all of these things, I think that this will also have a backlash, because in a certain sense, this paradigm, which was really the reason why the world came into this crisis in the last 40 years, is not in cohesion with the laws of the universe.

I remember very well, when in the beginning of the '70s, the Club of Rome, and these two MIT professors Forrester and Meadows, came out with this insane book, Limits to Growth . This was a propaganda effort in which these professors later agreed and admitted that they had designed a computer model, where the end result was clear in the beginning, namely that we have reached the end of development on the planet. That now we are in an equilibrium, that we have to now save energy, save resources, have sustainable development, and that that was a fraud. Because they had neglected the fact that limits to growth and limited resources, that this idea left out the most fundamental idea, which was that it is the level of technology and science, which defines what a resource is!

So they committed a fraud, and that fraud was financed by a tremendous propaganda effort, because this book Limits to Growth was translated and distributed in many, many languages; it became a bestseller hit in about 30 or more countries, and that is really what kicked off the environmentalist movement.

SCHLANGER: It was an important point with the 68ers. Because I remember, when I first started college, this was what people were talking about.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yes, and that was a fraud, because there are no limits to growth! That's a completely insane idea. If you look at the history of the universe, at least, what we know about it, at this point, the history of mankind in that universe, is such a tiny, tiny second. If you look at the ability of mankind, to overcome the limits to growth -- I mean, after all, if mankind had stayed at the level of hunters and gatherers, the potential of the human civilization would never had gone beyond 5 million or maybe 10 million; and in the last 10,000 years, mankind has made tremendous progress, in redefining what is a resource, and having the application of scientific and technological progress in that way, increasing the carrying potential of the population of the planet, to presently 7 billion, and if all existing technologies would be used, it would be easily at 20 billion or more! And the fact that mankind has done that in this extremely short period of time -- because 10,000 years from the standpoint of the time the universe is developing, is like less than a second.

Now, in a certain sense, that gives me the optimism, that if we now conquer these fundamental challenges which are represented by this connection between the solar flares, the electrodynamic processes around the galaxy, and in the Solar System, and the possible interaction that has with the tectonic developments on the planet Earth, then, we are asking the right questions. We are, for the first time, asking, "How can we develop on the planet, the energy-flux densities which are not only in nuclear fission, but especially nuclear fusion, so that we can on Earth, replicate the processes which are normally taking place on the Sun all the time, and especially when you have these solar flares, and eruptions, that the only way how we can understand what is happening on the Sun, is if we replicate that in a peaceful way with nuclear fusion on Earth."

And that is the next step evolution has to take, because only if we have that correlation, that we do make the next step in understanding the laws of the universe, that we can conquer these things! So, the reason why, I'm still optimistic, is that I believe that Leibniz, the philosopher of the end of the 17th into the 18th century, was absolutely right, that we are living in the best of all possible worlds, not because everything is nice and cozy, but because every challenge confronts mankind with the ability to respond to a great evil with an even greater good. And if we do that, and if we do fulfill our mission in this planet, that we increase the degrees of freedom, and I think we are only at the beginning.

I look at mankind in this way, that we are, right now, wearing the first baby-shoes of a beautiful development, which will carry us to absolutely unimaginable dimensions, at least unimaginable for most people today.

SCHLANGER: And Helga, you gave a presentation years ago, which I believe was written up in Fidelio magazine, on "The Sweetness of Truth," where you describe this yearning, the actual yearning of human beings for real beauty, not just the plastic beauty of a degenerate society, but real beauty which comes from looking at human beings with this kind of potential. I wonder if you could just say something about that?

Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah, I think that the question of -- this is a notion by Nicolaus of Cusa, "the sweetness of truth," where he said that every human being who has tasted the "sweetness of truth," meaning having access to your own creative powers, and when you realize what a richness you can open up, when you start to become creative, by discovering, either scientific principles, or artistic principles, or you can write things which are indeed on the level of Schiller, or on the level of Shelley, touching the profound ideas of mankind, that, once you have tasted that, you will appreciate that so much more than all the pleasures of the flesh, or avoiding pain and seeking lust for the moment, because you realize that there is a joy in the process of creativity, which makes a fulfilled life. And fortunately, I had in my life, often enough the opportunity, especially together with Lyn, to meet such people, scientists in Russia, artists in other places in Europe, or elsewhere, or great statesmen in some countries in the developing sector, and when you meet such people, and you realize that they are living in a completely different domain of human existence. Because they don't care how much money they get, or care how much caviar sandwiches they can eat, or some of these silly things people occupy their time with -- at least some of these bankers nowadays do! -- but that there is something which gives meaning to your life, that when you act in cohesion with the laws of the universe, when you, in religious terms, Nicolaus of Cusa said, "When you are living a life of imago viva Dei," of living in the living image of God, that you are continuing the process of creation by adding new discoveries, by adding new creative thoughts, in any field, let it be science, let it be literature, let it be poetry, architecture, or whatever, that you enjoy this sense of creativity. And once you have tasted it, that is what you want to continue.

And I think, what we have to do, with this mass strike, and I thought that in the last webcast, I really thought the way Lyn answered this question by putting the issue of human creativity in the context of the teachers' strike in the United States, we have a similar situation in Germany, because the teachers, who understand that the meaning of their life is to give exactly this spark of creativity to the pupils, and that is what it's all about! Because that is what makes us human! I mean, that fight has to be settled for good, and the oligarchy will lose that fight, because I think the human being has that potential. And when we can, in this moment of existential crisis of civilization, spark enough people, old people, young people, but especially young people, this desire to break free from the chains of material thinking, of two-dimensional thinking, and come to this identity of a creative person, then the oligarchy is finished, forever.

SCHLANGER: And that's the potential we have now, because you have people who recognize they can't continue as before. But they don't have solutions, and in this sense, what we've been able to do, with the webcast that Helga just mentioned, is archived on the LaRouche PAC website. You can look at this extraordinary dialogue that Lyndon LaRouche had with journalists, with economists, with people from around the world. ["Ireland & America"] Also, the new material coming out on the Rim of Fire that will be coming out from the Basement that will be available. We actually have a capability right now, to take this moment, and give these students this access to this higher truth.

Helga, I want to thank you very much for joining us today, this has been a delightful discussion. I think your optimism has been an inspiration to people, and I certainly hope at some point, we'll be able to welcome you back on this side of the ocean. And in the meantime, keep up the fight in Germany.

One last question on this: How long will this coalition government be able to survive in Germany, the Merkel government, if it's being pulled back and forth around the nuclear question, the bailouts -- is there any alternative on the surface?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I mean, we are facing right now an immediate problem, I mean, this government is, and that is the election in Saxon-Anhalt, this is the state [parliament] election will be next weekend, and then one week after that, you have elections in Rhineland-Pfalz and Baden-Württemberg. And I'm afraid that the reason why Mrs. Merkel made this really unbelievable 180-degree turnaround in terms of the moratorium on nuclear energy, was because she anticipated that as a result of the mass propaganda in the context of the Japan nuclear incident, that the Greens would basically win some of these elections, and she already has practically lost the majority in the Federal Council [Bundesrat, the upper house of parliament], so she tried to portray herself as more green than the Greens, and we had this unbelievable Bundestag debate two days ago, where members of the CDU/FDP [ruling coalition] were talking as if they would be the left wing of the red [Social Democrats] and the Green Party, by accusing the previous red-green coalition that they didn't do enough for renewable energy when they were in power! And then the Left Party denounced the red-green [coalition] also, saying when they were in power, they didn't exit nuclear energy -- so it was like a zoo! You know, everybody became so green, and -- you know, it leaves a tremendous vacuum for us!

So, I don't know what will happen, but this government is not very stable as a result of it, because people also lose trust, they don't trust politicians who turn at a dime's notice.

SCHLANGER: Right, right. And I presume then, we'll being doing something to publicize both the secret document, which is the one that calls for safety standards that would destroy nuclear energy, and also this report about the Club of Rome -- I assume that will be featured on the BüSo website, and I assume you'll put out a statement on that.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Definitely. We are definitely on the offensive.

SCHLANGER: All right, well, this is something we can look forward to. I think we'll be doing increasingly more coverage on the LaRouche PAC website of the campaigns in Germany, and also the upcoming campaign in France. Helga, any last words?

Abraham Lincoln Franklin Delano Roosevelt Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think people should really understand that this is the most important moment in all our lives, because I think there is no way to predict if you plunge into a dark age, or if we can shed this highly immoral and criminal order, which is condemning so many people to death, or at least to an unworthy life. I can not give you a guarantee, but I think this is the moment to rethink: What is the purpose of our existence? And should we not contribute with all our means, to make this world a better place for all human beings on this planet? So, I can only say: Support my husband and his movement in the United States, because if people would have listened to him, when the times were not as bad, I think that the United States would not be in such a dire condition. I think it's now the moment to really come out with LaRouche, come out with the six candidates, and come back to being the good America, which the world wants it to be! I mean, the whole world, at least the decent human beings, they would like America to be back to be a factor of good in the world, like it was with the American Revolution, like it was with Lincoln, or FDR, or Martin Luther King. So, become that United States, support my husband, and then I think that's the best you can do!

SCHLANGER: Helga, thank you very much, and with that, we're going to end the program today. We will be back next week, with another program with the LaRouche Show at 3 pm Eastern Time, and Helga, thanks for joining us today.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Nice to be with you!


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