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The LaRouche Show Hosts Helga Zepp-LaRouche, Oct. 23, 2010

The Current Trans-Atlantic System Is Dead:
It Is Time for the LaRouche Plan

October 2010

HARLEY SCHLANGER: Good afternoon, and welcome to a very special edition of The LaRouche Show. It's Saturday, Oct. 23rd, 2010. I'm Harley Schlanger, and I will be your host today.

In ten days, Americans will vote in the midterm elections. While the media is filled with stories and polls, mostly about how the Democrats are fighting the Republicans, and the Republicans are fighting the Democrats, the nation is actually plunging toward Hell. There are two things which are clear as we head to Election Day. First, that the American people are legitimately angry and frustrated, as the economy continues to crash, and neither the President nor the Congress is doing anything, to address the escalating economic and financial collapse, and the devastating effects on the living standards of the American people. Secondly, with the exception of what Lyndon LaRouche, and the LaRouche candidates for Congress, Kesha Rogers, in the 22nd District of Texas, and Summer Shields in San Francisco, California, with the exception of what they're putting forward, there's no serious alternative being presented, by either party.

In fact, it's even worse than that: We're headed into a global, hyperinflationary breakdown, a Weimar 1923-style explosion, only this time on a global scale, and President Barack Obama is running across the country like a madman, trying to whip up support from the handful of remaining Obama zombies from the 2008 period, while the effects of his policies are beginning to result in mass deaths, as we can see occurring today, in Haiti, with the outbreak of the cholera epidemic, that Lyndon LaRouche warned would happen, if Obama continued his policies.

For those self-deluded fools, who say, "Oh, wait until Nov. 3rd, after the election, or until January 2011, when a new Congress is sworn in," we say, simply, "We can not wait. There will be no change, as long as Obama remains in the White House."

There are solutions, of course, which would work. Solutions that have been repeatedly presented by Lyndon LaRouche, in his webcasts, in his weekly reports, and his writings, solutions that would not only turn around the economy, but would remoralize the populations of all nations. But they will not be implemented, until Obama is removed as President. LaRouche has identified the most efficient way to do this: Use the 25th Amendment to remove President Obama, as he is proven to be incapable of fulfilling the duties of his office.

On The LaRouche Show today, we're going to discuss both the dangerously escalating crisis, as well as what we must do. And, by the way, when I say "we," I mean those of you listening today. And we have to do, if we're going to prevent civilization from the genocidal effects of a deepening New Dark Age, which threatens to wipe out about 5 billion people.

Joining me today on the program is one of the only strategic thinkers on the planet, who has both provided in-depth analysis of this crisis as it is unfolding, but has also given us an example of courageous leadership: I'm very happy to welcome to The LaRouche Show today, Helga Zepp-LaRouche. Helga, welcome to the show. It's really good to have you with us, today.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche at Schiller Institute Conference in Berlin, September 25, 2010

HELGA ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yes, I'm very happy to be with you.

SCHLANGER: Let's begin at the top. I wanted you on the program, because I think people need to get a clear picture of what we face, and you're one of the few people who "tells it like it is," as we say in the United States. So, from the top, what're we facing in the days and weeks ahead if Obama is not removed from the White House?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, there is no question, that this financial system is absolutely finished. And the danger is, that the situation can spin out of control very, very rapidly, and when you pass a certain point in history, there comes a point, when it is too late. I think that the biggest problem is that people somehow mix up history with soap operas: They think that you can have a "telenovela," for 10, 20 years, and the main characters change, but the story goes on and on. But real life is not in such a way at all! You can have sudden developments, which completely change the situation, from bad to worse, to hopeless, and we are right now in such a period, where we have to assume that this is about to happen.

Now, the situation in the United States, I thought that one of the most remarkable articles on this, was in Time magazine a couple of days ago. I normally am not quoting the papers as an source of authority, but I'm doing it this time, because, there, the author, a guy called Stephen Gandel, asked the question whether the Federal Reserve will actually destroy the nation and cause a violent civil war in the United States. And looking at it from Europe, I know that the whole issue of possession of weapons is regarded completely differently in the United States, than in Europe, but if you have a complete process of laying off police, firemen, at the same time people are being released from prisons because there is no money to maintain them inside, naturally, you have an explosion of criminality, of crime, and when people are being advised to take care of their own security and buy weapons, well, -- I mean, projecting this a little bit further into the future, this could lead to a violent civil war, even the break-up of the United States, in the same way the situation in Europe! Spain is dying right now; Greece will never be able to pay back the money which was given by the EU and European governments; you have the danger of a disintegration of Italy!

So, I think that we are in a period of history, where it is very, very clear, that only a very sober looking at what is, can prevent a disaster.

SCHLANGER: Helga, let me pick up on that point you just made, in terms of the potential for disintegration. Because if you look at the United States, and see what you just said, that with cities no longer able to provide protection, either police or fire protection, you actually are moving to a point, where you literally have neighborhood gangs that would be the source of protection. And this is very much like the Dark Ages, with local, privatized militias. But the other point to that, is that it also brings up the danger of ripping up the Constitution, and going to an extra-legal police-state. This is the kind of thing you're talking about, then.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, yeah! What we are watching here, is the European Union, they already have plans, where they expect mass unrest, and violent mass unrest, and the potential use not only of the police, but also of privatized sort of military. We have recently made an interview with the head of a police trade union, here in Germany, who said, the way things are going, is, the police are being dismantled, the army is being trained to be used against their own population, and what they are worried about, is not only a police-state, but some kind of a military coup.

If you look at the situation in France, right now: for days, if not weeks, day after day, 3 million, 4 million people are taking to the streets, protesting to the cut down of the living standards, in the form of extending the age at which people can receive their pension. And in a certain sense, this is out of control, already. Sarkozy already deployed the gendarmerie, and basically ruled that certain personnel of a certain refinery had to maintain their plant, or else they would face five years in prison. I mean, what we are looking at, is really the disintegration of the social fabric of entire states.

And I think people really have to remember, that if you have a breakdown crisis, the danger of fascism is very, very immediate, and I think it is very, very instructive, to actually look what happened in the '30s! Because, you in the United States were lucky, you had Franklin D. Roosevelt, who implemented the Glass-Steagall standard, had the Pecora Commission investigate who was responsible for the Crash of '29 and the Depression; and then, with the TVA program and the New Deal, got the United States out of the Depression. But in Europe, unfortunately, people were going the other way, by implementing brutal austerity: The Brüning government, and then the unemployment exploded, and then soon, you had not only Mussolini, but you had Hitler, Franco, the Pétain government. And this is then what led to World War II. So, people have to understand, that once you have a breakdown crisis, and you have fascist austerity, this can only lead to a tragedy. And people at that time, completely misjudged the situation!

I was just looking today at some old research I was doing, and you know before 1933 and appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, through Hindenburg, there were maybe three individuals, who had a clear sight of what would happen. All the others had completely illusions, and it is quite an historical phenomenon, how people misjudged the situation, before Hitler. For example, I give you one quote: On the 15th of January, 1933, Reichschancellor Kurt von Schleicher, the last Chancellor before Hitler, he said, on Jan. 15th, "Herr Hitler no longer is a problem. His movement has stopped being a political danger. The whole matter is settled, and the sorrow of the past."

Now, obviously, the trade unions thought Hitler would be gone by the next election. The Social Democrats said, "Oh, this is a minor problem compared to what we had to go through before," and the Communists thought that the "social fascists," namely the Social Democrats, were the problem, and they all had a rude awakening. Because it took exactly less than -- yeah, something like four weeks before you had the Reichstagbrand [fire], and then you had a whole bunch of assassinations within the NSDAP [Nazi Party], and then shortly thereafter, you had a full-fledged dictatorship.

So, I think people really must understand, that the historical moment of breakdown crisis -- because, what people overlooked in Germany in 1933, they only looked at this Hitler, they made fun of him, they said, "Oh, he's just a banal charlatan. He's intellectually very weak," but what they completely overlooked, was that the whole process which had led to this situation, was the Versailles Treaty, imposing this debt regime on Germany, which then made the rise of Hitler possible. And the powers of the Versailles Treaty, they were playing the whole situation from the outside, and that factor has to be seen. Because, the financial forces, in the tradition of that Versailles regime, are still in existence today! So, don't just --

SCHLANGER: The same forces are running the Obama Administration. I want to come back to this question of illusion in a moment. But I want to encourage our listeners, if we have questions, we will take emails today for Helga Zepp-LaRouche. You can send your questions to us, at

Now, Helga, you mentioned this question of illusions. And we saw that obviously, throughout Europe in the '30s, and the whole question of the misjudging of what was actually behind Hitler. This is one of the important points, that your husband has been making in the United States, repeatedly today: That Obama is not just a slightly off-the-wall character, but he's actually doing what is being laid out for him, in this crisis. And I wonder if you would just pick that up.

Because we have to get at these illusions! People think, "Well, maybe, give Obama a little more time." We hear this a lot. They say, "Well, after the elections, the Republicans might have the majority in the Congress, and then they can work with Obama, or they can stop Obama." And these kinds of illusions in the past, have led to absolute catastrophe. So, I wonder if you'd comment on that?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, in a certain sense, I think it's just cowardice. Because, when the election campaign took place in 2008, we were looking at Obama and watched what kinds of money he would get from Wall Street, from hedge funds, from George Soros, the whole involvement of MoveOn in his campaign. And basically, we didn't trust that anything good would come from. But, when he was President, my husband basically said: "Okay, now he's President, and he deserves to be supported, and we will give him all the support he's needing." Especially because Obama was invoking Lincoln, and Roosevelt, so you know, you could have the hope that he would follow his own promises. But then, very, very quickly, it became clear that he was doing exactly the same thing that George W. Bush doing, and more of it! Namely the bailout of the banks, at the expense of the population, and you have an explosion of rage in the population, not only in the United States, but also in Europe -- not in all countries, but in France, for sure, in Spain and Portugal, in Greece, and this is all nourished by an understanding by more and more people that this whole thing is a fake! Why should the livelihood and the existence of people be sacrificed, for what? So that the millionaires become more rich? That you have more billionaires and millionaires after 39 months of the crisis, and you have more people jobless, homeless, and without any medical care? I think the people realize that this is the biggest fraud ever, and in a certain sense, Obama is the cover for all of that. He hasn't done --

SCHLANGER: Let me ask you something on that, because there's been a resurgence of discussion in the last days, around the housing crisis, because the efforts that were made by, first, Hank Paulson, and then Geithner, Barney Frank, Obama, where they all promised they were going to deal with the housing situation. What we now see, is that there will be well over a million homes seized this year. There was a record number, in September, over 102,000 homes seized; now, there's the scandal, that the homes that are being seized are being seized by people who don't even own them! And this, of course, has led to a scandal. And then, on top of that, the banks are now saying, they're going to need another bailout, maybe $70-200 billion, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are lining up for another $300 billion -- there's no end to these bailouts! How is this seen in Europe? Do people from Europe see any way out of this in the United States?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think what people are really worried, is that the United States disintegrate. Now, there are some people who are actually -- I don't know this word in English -- Schadenfroh.

SCHLANGER: Take pleasure in this.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah, a secret pleasure that this may be, because they have a deep-rooted anti-Americanism, which is obviously, completely insane. Because the more reasonable people understand perfectly well, that because of the globalization and the total connectedness of all market segments of the world economy, that if the United States goes down, then there is as much chance that Europe will survive that, like the famous snowball in Hell, because the situation in Europe is completely dependent -- for example, the only economy which supposedly did well, was the German economy, and the media and the politicians here lying through their teeth, saying there is an upswing in Germany, and the worst is over. But this is completely crazy, because all the export dependency of Germany, 61% of German exports go the other European Union members, so if they go down, what does that do to German exports? Then naturally, what happens if the Chinese economy crumbles, because they are dependent upon the exports to the United States? And if the U.S. stops being a consumer market, because people are going bankrupt, then you can forget China. So you are looking at an unraveling of the situation.

And already now, the speculators who have gotten all this bailout money, they don't put it under their mattress, but they're looking for new, lucrative objects of speculation, and right now, it is precious metals, it is raw materials, but it is especially agricultural raw materials: And that is already killing people. Because if you have one, or maybe two meals a day, consisting of wheat, meat and bread, and some little something, an increase of 30-40% is already killing off a whole number of people! And unfortunately, there can be no doubt, that that is the intention of some of the financial forces who are doing it. Because they are so interwoven with an oligarchy which has been running the ecological swindle for more than a century, and they have made very clear, and stated publicly repeatedly, they want to reduce the population from presently nearly 7 billion, to 2 or less!

And I think that what we see, is a mixture between hard-core, ideological forces, who really are determined to destroy industrial nations with the pretext to save the "environment," but in reality to reduce the population, because they are oligarchs at heart. And that is interwoven, and mixed with greedy idiots, like these bankers from Wall Street and London and Frankfurt, and whatnot places, who could not care less!

I was, by chance, talking in a public transport situation, to somebody who turned out to be an investment banker. And at one point in the discussion, he said, "Yeah, yeah, what you are saying is exactly what the pessimists in my area are saying, namely, that the whole thing will blow out. They already have bought their house in the countryside and plan to grow food in an autarkic way; they've already bought their gun, and they think they can get through this way." And I said, "I hope they also bought shotguns, because when you have a scarcity of food and hungry people, you can not grow your food in your little house, and think you can..." Then he said, "Yes, I agree. We already talked about it. If it gets to that, then they will steal our seeds as well." So here you have these people, they have absolutely no empathy for the suffering of millions of people, and they're just trying to eat caviar as long as they can, and if the Titanic goes under tomorrow, so be it!

SCHLANGER: Well, Helga these are the same people who are pushing -- in the United States anyway, Geithner, Bernanke, pushing what they call "quantitative easing," with the argument that, "well, there's no inflation." And yet, you look at the collapse of the dollar, and you see the dollar's collapsing because of the hyperinflation in the money supply.

But, there's back and forth in Europe. You have Trichet one day saying, "No quantitative easing." Then the next day, they're "easing." But at the same time, there's a real push for austerity, and you saw this with a vengeance in Great Britain, this week, with the announcement of austerity regime, we've seen it with Greece, with Spain. Is there fight coming -- we see the fighting in France, and obviously, it's not just the retirement age, because a lot of young people are involved -- is there an ability to fight this, inside Europe?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think there is. But I think that the very fact that Europe is in the straitjacket of the Maastricht Treaty, I think the recent summit between Sarkozy and Merkel in Caen, just demonstrated that they're completely incompetent. What they decided is, to have some sort of compromise, by which semi-automatic sanctions can be imposed on countries that do not fulfill the Maastricht criteria. Now, that obviously is the case for Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland; but soon, France, and then Germany will be de facto, the only country that will have to bail out all of these other countries! Because when they signed the European Financial Stability Pact, there is actually a clause, which says that if some member-countries have to leave because they can't fulfill the conditions any more, then the others have to take over. Now, there is no provision that there is a limit to that, so, de facto, Germany is the only surplus country: then, that would mean that Germany would have to pay for it all. I think that when the German population realizes that, and there is new talk for new bailout packages, for Spain and maybe another one for Greece, I think we will have a social explosion, and unfortunately, I don't think it will be very pretty, because you know, I think what the oligarchy is doing right now, being perfectly aware that if you had real resistance, fighting for the common good, fighting for living standards, then, if millions of people take to the streets, no army can be sufficient to crush that.

So, what they're doing right now, in Germany, is unbelievable, but we discovered: You may have heard about these protests against the railway station in Stuttgart, the Stuttgart 21.

Masked terrorists assault a nuclear plant in Germany in 1986. The anti-nuclear hysteria succeeded in shutting down Germany's nuclear program; Germany was once the world's leader in the export of nuclear technology.

SCHLANGER: Sure, crazy Greenies.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, it's mixed: There are some people from Stuttgart who are anthroposophs and Greenies themselves, but the main thing is being shipped in there, through activists' organizations, like one called, whose founder, a certain person called Christoph Bautz, actually went at the beginning of 2000, to the United States, to study MoveOn, and to study how George Soros actually financed the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Rose Revolution in Georgia, and similar destabilizations in Central Asia; and they have now basically set up throughout Europe, such activists organizations which are all financed by -- it goes through various channels, one, for example is something called the European Climate Foundation, whose board includes quite unbelievable individuals, but the so-called funding partners are all the top hedge funds and locusts from Great Britain! Arcadia Fund, where you have Jacob Rothschild sitting in; then you have another hedge fund called the Children's Initiative Fund.

So the top hedge funds, from London, are financing the destabilization, not only of the building of this main station in Stuttgart, but the blocking of all kinds of other infrastructure projects throughout Germany. They want to stop all coal plants, and nuclear plants. Anyway, they have now called for a "hot autumn" and a huge demonstration on Nov. 5th, when the nuclear waste transport is supposed to be transported from France, The Hague, to Gorleben, and they have now set up literally hundreds of training camps to train these people how to do these kinds of actions!

Now, this is really unbelievable! I mean, if you think that Germany, without all of these projects, is going to stop being an industrial nation, and without Germany as an industrial nation, you can kiss Europe good-bye, then you can actually see that these hedge funds right now, have de facto declared war against Germany.

SCHLANGER: Yeah, that's where you see the genocidal intent. I have two quick questions for you more, just on the crisis, and then I want to get into the solutions, because I know you've been doing some traveling to make sure that the solutions are presented to people in Germany, and I know that what we've done with NAWAPA in the United States, with Mr. LaRouche's pushing of the Basement to get the material out there, we actually are putting forward an alternative. But I think it's important that people keep in mind, we're not going to get there, unless Obama is removed.

Let me first bring up the Obama question, because back on April 11th, 2009, Lyndon LaRouche identified him as a narcissist, a Nero figure. I think many people are beginning to see this now. There's the "Ulsterman" reports coming out in the United States, very interesting material from senior diplomatic sources, like Chas Freeman and Larry Johnson in the last couple of days. I know there was a tremendous illusion about Obama when he first came into office in January 2009; what's the sense of Obama now from Europe? Are people beginning to see this character, the Hitler in the bunker, the Nero figure?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think that the media still have a relative wrap on the whole discussion of the United States. People in Europe, except if they go to our websites, have a hard time, to find out what is going on with this situation in the United States. I think what is happening now, is, that the coverage is, "Okay, Obama is a huge disappointment, he's no different from Bush." Then there was a big report in Spiegel and Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, on these secret commandos in Pakistan, and the drone, so basically people were saying, "Yeah, okay, maybe Obama promised not to torture people any more like at Guantánamo, he's just killing them! With drones."

SCHLANGER: Yeah! More humane.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: So, that came out. And then you had another article in the Frankfurter Rundschau two weeks ago, basically with the headline "Is Obama a Failed President?" So, I think it is slowly sinking in, but I think people are not thinkers, you know, the majority of people don't even consider that they made such a total error. But people who know us, basically knowledge that we wee on the mark all the time, and basically we said, "beware of this so-called magician, because he's just a soufflé."

SCHLANGER: Just quickly on that, there's another example, which is this whole question that's come up now, on Haiti, where Lyndon LaRouche warned back in February, that if the Army Corps of Engineers is not brought in, if people are not removed to higher ground, if there's not an effort to deal with the problems of waste, and sewage and total breakdown, you would have contagious diseases which spread like wildfire: Now, there are 130 acknowledged deaths from cholera. Thousands of people with cholera; tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, in areas where cholera is spreading! And this is, in fact, the genocide that he was warning about. I know there was a lot of effort made by aid groups in France and Germany, especially France, to do something in Haiti, but it would seem, this is another way to get this point across, this is in fact, the malign neglect of this administration, that it is Obama's fault that this is happening!

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah, I think the whole condition of the Third World in general. In a certain sense, I think that the fact that you have 20 million people in danger of dying from starvation in Niger, Chad, and nothing is being done about it -- to the contrary, Obama came out and supported the referendum and possible secession of the south of Sudan, which could really throw this whole part of the world into a complete nightmare, because you could have unrest spreading on top of starvation. And I think it's really clear that this man has absolutely no sympathy for Africa!

SCHLANGER: Well, I think the first point in avoiding a tragedy, is making it clear to people that a tragedy's coming. And the second point, is getting people to recognize, that unless they act, the tragedy will be fulfilled.

Now, what you've been doing, in leading in Europe and what Lyndon LaRouche has been doing in the United States with infrastructure, with the discussion of the potential to totally transform the world, this goes back some initiatives you took years ago, with the whole question of the space exploration -- we had a Krafft Ehricke conference in Virginia -- how do we inspire people, to get them to get out of the pettiness and the fears, and start thinking aout the actual potential for human beings on this planet?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I think that the most important thing, is that people not just live their lives as if it would be in a soap opera, with no beginning and no end, just on and one. That, sometimes, you have to step back, and say, "Okay, what does the world look like?" And anybody, who is not a complete moral moron, must see that the world right, is in such an unjust condition, that it can not remain like that! When I made my first trip around the world in 1971, on a freighter -- as a matter of fact, as a journalist, I had the opportunity to do that -- and I saw the condition of Africa, then, which was in a certain sense not as severe as now, but also the situation in Asia. I came back from that trip and said, "Look, this is not justified! We have to have real development."

And then, fortunately, I met relatively immediately afterwards, the theories of Mr. LaRouche in the university in Berlin, and I said, "That is it! Exactly, that is it!" Because he was the only one who was talking about infrastructure development for Africa, Latin America, Asia. And basically then, I joined his movement, and since almost 40 years, we have been working now, on very concrete development projects for every part of the world, and I think that that is what you have to do: You have to imagine that if you could design programs for people, how they could live, what kinds of agriculture, what kinds forestry, what kinds of industrial development, scientific development, you would provide people. And when you start to do that, and you have a concrete idea that there is an alternative, that, for example, all this discussion by Mrs. Merkel, that her policies are without an alternative, that that is completely wrong, because, you could absolutely abandon this bailout policy of the banks, and speculation and you could start to really develop, as we are doing it right now with what de facto is, a program for the reconstruction of the world economy. Because if you take the combination of the NAWAPA project, the PLHINO project for Mexico; then this program which we just added with the closing of the Darién Gap, the whole development of South America, together with the Eurasian Land-Bridge, the Bering Strait [tunnel], the filling of the Sea of Aral, the filling of Lake Chad, as a pool for irrigation for the entire Sahel zone, actually, you know, all these projects -- or most of these projects -- have been in the closets of engineering firms for decades!


ZEPP-LAROUCHE: And if you look at what blocked them, what blocked NAWAPA, it was the World Wildlife Fund of Prince Philip and Prince Bernhard! If you look, for example, we just had a very good event in Frankfurt, where one of the speakers was a guest from Ethiopia, who presented a perfectly wonderful plan for a dam, which would provide large parts of Ethiopia, with power, with irrigation, with agriculture. And then, he also presented an attack on that plan -- by whom? By the German coordinator, for the same European Climate Foundation, which is financing the anti-nuclear movement in Germany, and the Stuttgart anti-railway station movement, and they are behind the attack on this dam in Ethiopia!

Now, if you see, that there is one common hand behind that, then you understand that what we're really involved with, is a fight between those people who want to kill off billions of people, to preserve their privileges as an oligarchy, and those people who are fighting for world development! And I think what we need, therefore, is a very conscious, worldwide movement for development, of people who say, "It was a mistake not to have built NAWAPA, it was a mistake not to have done all of these development projects, which were already well established in the '50s and the '60s, and it's now high time to undo that mistake. And I think if we do that, and you fight for that, with a passion, I think the majority of the people are on our side! They want to live!

SCHLANGER: Well, let's to the deeper level on that, because obviously, if we're dealing simply with, "here are the economic policies that could change this," versus "here's where we're going," most people presumably would make the right choice, although they'd have stupid arguments about "where's the money coming from," and things like that, which we could answer. But we're actually dealing with this deeper, more profound question of the corruption of a population that's induced to think small. And I've heard you give presentations before, that I think get to this, in a really interesting, where you talk about the question of mankind still being in a prepubescent period, an infantile or child stage, as opposed to being adult. And for that, what Lyndon LaRouche has been talking about recently, is that you have to fight for this idea of scientific creativity and Classical artistic creativity.

How does that work, how can this question of giving people the sense of bigness again? How do we get them out of the smallness, Helga?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: I think that the best thing is what Lyn is doing with the people in the LaRouche Youth Movement and so-called "Basement" crew, because, if people actually develop the sweetness of creativity, of knowing how to use your mind for the common good, and to develop concepts which get you deeper and deeper into the secrets of how the universe functions, what are the laws of the universe, that it is man's unique ability to discover these laws deeper and deeper, and more perfectly, and that there is actually no limit to the self-perfection of the human mind, once you pursue that course, well, then you have a completely different identity than if you are a consumer! If you just think, that you have to have the goods your neighbor poses, and you have to have privileges, and you have to eat caviar and you have to drive a Porsche, and all of these things, then you are not actually human, then you are just a being which basically a predator on other human beings. And I think that that is actually mental disease.

I mean, from my standpoint, since these people can not judge the consequences of their doing, and this banker I was mentioning before, was a typical example, because he had zero perception that he's participating in something evil -- absolutely absent that understanding. But people who do not understand reality, are insane! I mean, what is the clinical definition of people who don't understand the world around them, in my view, it's insanity! So, the first step is, therefore, to get people to think themselves, to not take their opinions from the media, or their neighbor, the peer group, but to rediscover the art of making your own judgment, of your own creativity, your own research, of thinking for yourself. And I think that once people see that, you can inspire them, and I think that we are right now, in the period of time, where people realize this whole system is a complete fraud, and therefore, we have a chance to make our voice heard in this moment, and actually catalyze a change. I think we are at the end of an era, there is no question in my mind, that we are right now, as much at the end of an era, like at the end of the Middle Ages. And Nicolaus of Cusa, who was sort of the towering mind of the new age coming, he was very conscious: He said, "I know that an era is ending, and I know that my ideas are the inspiration for the new time to come, because I'm thinking things which nobody before me were thinking.

And I think we are at such a moment. The system of oligarchy is coming to an end: There's no way how this system will survive! The only question is, will the world plunge into chaos for several generations -- like Haiti, like Niger, like -- I also have the vision, that in the end, there will be only armed gangs left over, fighting for the last crumbs of bread, because there is no longer any farming going on, and I have a vision of what a Dark Age would look like: You just have to look at the pictures of Brueghel and Bosch, where you see crazy people being painted there from the 14th century, and you see, that we are on the verge. I'll give you two examples: In Germany, and it's probably the same in the United States, too, you have now eight-year-old pupils, who send themselves via their handis, their cellphones, hard-core pornos.


ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Now, this is going on everywhere, and I can assure you: This is the sign of a Dark Age! Because, if children are not protected from such ugliness, they have no chance to develop a healthy mind. And I think people who tolerate that, or indifferent about that! These are signs of a Dark Age, which we are in, already! And you know, in a certain sense, what you have to do, instead, you have to reject that, and you have say, "No! I'm going to be a self-thinking human being, and I'm going to pursue a life, in which beauty means something, in which children have a chance, and in which, basically, I'm fighting for a cultural renaissance, because it's all there! And we in Germany, in a certain sense, we would be so rich, because a lot of these things have been written in German, or composed in German, and I think we should be able to make that available again, in a real way, for the youth, as well.

SCHLANGER: Helga, we have a question on that, from the email. Someone asked about the Monday demonstrations, that brought down the G.D.R. and the Honecker regime, just over 20 years ago, and the question is, is there some way to spark that again, that same spirit? You've written extensively about that, the "lost opportunity of 1989": Does that permanently demoralize a population, or can they rekindle that spirit?

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: I think the problem is, right now, that -- you know, I had initiated in 2004, new Monday demonstrations against this absolutely terrible so-called Hartz IV law, which was this idea that if you become unemployed, you first have to use up everything you possess, from your life insurance, to your house, to your car, before you get any unemployment money, so it is a very brutal expropriation, and people who plunge into Hartz IV, normally have no chance to ever get out, and they're being thrown into poverty forever.

So, it's a completely unjust thing. This was done by [then Chancellor] Schröder, the Red/Green [Social Democratic/Green Party] government on behalf of the banks at the time, and I launched these Monday demonstrations against, but then there was an absolutely orchestrated way to try and subvert it, and eventually it was -- it grew very quickly, to more than 100,000 people, but then it was subverted, and it died down. And I think the problem is, that right now, such a thing can only happen spontaneously. I think in France, it's happening in a way, because there the population is in a mode of resistance and insurrection against the government. I can not predict how quickly that will affect Germany. What I see in Germany, right now, is that the oligarchy is funding, is channeling money to these activists to try to divert the issue and change the subject to fight against a railway station! I mean, it's insane! The environment would profit greatly if this station would be underground, because you could use the area for flowers and whatnot! These people are completely irrational.

SCHLANGER: In the United States, you would think if someone's a greenie or an environmentalist, they'd support the desert, but apparently they're worried about cacti and sand: So they're actually brownies, in the United States.

Friedrich Schiller

Helga, let me bring up another question on this, because we're approaching an important day: The birthday of Friedrich Schiller. You're the founder of the Schiller Institute, and of course, Schiller had quite a bit to say about these kinds of conditions and these kinds of battles in his time. But I think it's important, again, on this question of how you uplift people, that you recently had, with the BüSo in Germany, a performance of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, the Fourth Movement, the Schiller's setting of An die Freude by Beethoven. And it had quite an effect! And in the United States, we're doing work now, to vindicate Mozart as not just a great composer, but a brilliant tragedian, and on top of that, a hero, for standing up, and fighting to defend Vienna, from the onslaught of an Anglo-Venetian attack.

So, culture is not merely something that's extraneous, but it's actually part of how history is made, and I wonder if you'd comment on that.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, in the case of Mozart, and your work on Don Giovanni, I think the text of the opera is one of the most unbelievable attacks on the perversion of the nobility. Because that is how the culture is, the culture of the oligarchy! And Friedrich Schiller, if you take all his works, from his dramas, to his theoretical writings, to even his poetry, it is an unrelenting effort to turn small people into big people, to fight against tyranny of all kinds, and to basically fight for the highest ideal of the state in which the citizen is actually the conscious state-citizen, taking responsibility for history, as a world-historical individual. And I can only advise people to re-read, or read for the first time, these writings by Schiller On the Sublime, or On Beauty, or On the Moral Character of Theater, because his whole effort was to take ordinary people, bakers, nurses, housekeepers, just little people, and confront them with the large issues of mankind, put them in a position where they would have to decide, or they have to identify with the person, the main actor on the stage, if their action would determine what will be the fate of their nation for generations to come. And by somehow forcing people to take that position, transforming the audience, and I think that is exactly what is needed!

Because, I think that the idea that everybody should be a king, like the famous dialogue between King Prince and the Marquis Posa, in Don Carlos, where Posa says to Philip, "Be a king of a million kings!" This is a very beautiful metaphor, that everybody is a beautiful soul, everybody is a genius. And Schiller, very, very consciously contrasted that to the Jacobin idea that equality comes basically by chopping everybody's head off, in the Revolution. And he contrasted that, and said, "Be a king of a million kings."

And I think, in America, people should understand that: Because the American Revolution and the German Classical period, were two of the greatest periods in history, actually occurring at the same time. And Schiller was basically, absolutely inspired by the American Revolution, and he said, the issue of creating a just state, is the most debated issue of his decade -- he said that in the 1780s.

So, I think what we have to do, is we have to revive the thinking of the Founding Fathers, of the German Classical period, and basically apply it for today! Because, why should people not think like Mozart, or Schiller? Why should they not be creative? Why should we not have new Classical compositions, in poetry, in drama, and why should we not do that the Italian Renaissance did, after the Dark Age of the 14th century, making a new Golden Renaissance? I think the first step, is to throw out a lot of modern "entertainment," throw it out entirely, and replace it with great historical performances, of operas, of theater, and just recognize how much this garbage by the globalization affected your own mind, and get rid of it!

SCHLANGER: And part of that, which is the major point, one of the major points, that Lyndon LaRouche has made on this question of Don Giovanni and Mozart, is that, when you're looking at an opera, as you said with Don Giovanni, you're looking at real history, and it shows the person in the audience, that it's these axioms that held back the society on the stage, that led to the tragedy, which are gripping the minds of the people in the audience, as well. And from that standpoint, this emphasis that Lyn has been making on, the fight for immortality, to actually recognize that one of the things that's important with a great infrastructure project, is, that you may not complete it in your lifetime -- for example, NAWAPA, or getting to Mars -- but that by taking up this fight, and fighting for the future, if you're not fighting for the future, you can be made little, to the point that you'll dig around in a little garden to try and produce one turnip to survive!

So I think this is one of the things we can learn from this, this question that, it's the fight for the future that gives your life meaning.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Yeah. And I think the most important thing, is that, in order to have a sense of what immortality means, well, first of all, have you thought about all the people whom you met in your lifetime, who already passed away? Great people -- I mean, I had the fortune of having met quite a number of extraordinary individuals in many different countries, and somehow, you have to be aware, that what we do today, will make their lives, more little, or bigger. Because, if we do our job well, then their heritage will grow, and if we do our job, not at all, then they have lived in vain! I think this is a big burden: Because if my beloved Schiller, or my beloved Cusa, or Leibniz, if they have worked for nothing, or for little; or, if they really were the foundation stones of a new era in civilization, it depends on me!

So I think people have to understand, that we are in the middle of the past, and the future, and the only way, that we can throw in our whole identity, is by feeling a passion for civilization! A passion for mankind! And I think that's something you have to train, because most people really are like crippled plants, who can only feel very small things. But I think you can also do what Lessing said, or even Confucius, before him, that you can switch on love, if you if you decide to do so.

Toward a New Council of Florence: "On The Peace of Faith" and Other Works by Nicolaus of Cusa.
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And you know, Nicolaus of Cusa, for example, who in many ways was a stepping stone for all of the modern age, in terms of the nation-state, in terms of natural science; he was a typical -- or maybe the person who had this absolute passion for the community of peoples of his time, and he had this idea of the development of the macrocosm, meaning that all nations had the right to equal development, and encouraging each other through a dialogue among the best traditions among them. And in a certain sense, I think we have to have this mobilization of love, of passion for other countries, not just our own family, and not just our own situation, but I think that that ability, to take the fate of mankind, at this point, where it is so much in danger, into our own heart and mind, will be, probably the most important, decisive factor. Because, once you feel that love for mankind, the fear goes away. And I think it is the fear which is what is crippling people and say, "Oh! I know I should do this, but I don't want to stick my neck out, because I could get in trouble, so I'd better keep low, and a low profile." I think that that fear can only be smashed by the conscious decision to be a lover of mankind, to be a passionate defender of civilization, because it is beautiful.

And the work in natural science, in astronomy, biophysics and other areas, is so important! Because, when you do it in a serious way, you end up like Johannes Kepler, that you recognize that this order of civilization, of the universe, of the physical universe, is so well thought out, and so beautiful, that there must be a Creator, Who has created that, and that Creator was also One who had tremendous love, because otherwise He couldn't have made a world so beautiful. And once you understand that, that you are a microcosm in this macrocosm, and that you are in the image of God, when you replicate the most noble ability of God, which is His ability to create, well, then you feel free! And you have passion to do the things which are of value to civilization, and which help to bring civilization on!

SCHLANGER: And Helga, we've run out of time on that. But that's a beautiful way to end it, because it's the overcoming of fear, that will give people the ability to go out, and aggressively fight, right now, to save the United States, to save Germany. In the United States, it means we have to get the 25th Amendment invoked, so we can get Obama out, and get the LaRouche Plan implemented. We should have, I should just mention, on the website, you can go there, and see almost every day, now, new videos that are demonstrating precisely the principles that Helga was just discussing, in terms of NAWAPA, and the extended NAWAPA.

Also: Two weeks from today, Lyndon LaRouche will be giving his next international webcast, on November 6th, and if you live in Texas or California, get out the vote for Kesha Rogers and Summer Shields!

So, Helga, thank you very much for joining us today, and join us next week again. We'll be back with The LaRouche Show, every Saturday, at 3 p.m. Eastern Time. Thanks for listening.

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